This episode of the Modern War Institute Podcast features a conversation with Rebecca Lissner and Mira Rapp-Hooper. In their new book, An Open World: How America Can Win the Contest for Twenty-First Century Order, they tackle questions of how the United States can best achieve its objectives, pursue its national interests, and protect its national security in an era of major change.

As the world is entering an era of shifting power dynamics and challenges to the institutions that defined the post–World War II order, what opportunity does the United States have to shape the order that emerges? What policies will best equip the United States to leverage America’s private-sector technological base? What contributions will allies and partners make toward shared strategic goals? The discussion in this episode tackles these and other questions.

Lissner is an assistant professor at the US Naval War College and Rapp-Hooper is Stephen A. Schwarzman Senior Fellow for Asia Studies at the Council on Foreign Relations and a senior fellow at Yale Law School’s Paul Tsai China Center.

Listen to the full conversation below, and be sure to subscribe to the MWI Podcast wherever you get your podcasts—Apple PodcastsStitcher, Spotify, TuneIn, or your favorite podcast app.

Image credit: Shealah Craighead, White House